Curse

Burst Cancel · May 02, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Is it more important than storyline? Graphics? Gameplay?

It depends on the game, obviously. If you treat the game like a movie (e.g., RPGs), UI is probably going to take a backseat to plot and graphics; it would take a pretty bad UI to totally ruin an interactive movie. Other games are defined almost entirely by their 'gameplay' (sports games, fighting games, FPS), where UI is going to be a huge factor. UI becomes even more critical in any game that's expected to be played at a competitive level.

Gli · May 02, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Is it more important than storyline? Graphics? Gameplay? I can only speak for myself, but I've played plenty of games where the user interface was lacking. However, I continued playing the game becuase it was worth playing.

Quality of user interface and controls are inherently tied to gameplay, and in my book, they're definitely more important than storyline. Graphics? They're never a "'must buy" consideration for me, though they can be a "won't buy" reason if they're particularly ghastly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

If you refuse to play a game becuase you don't like having to use the WASD keys (I personally remap them all to the arrows

) over having a click to move interface, then that is your decision. Though, it still seems like a trivial matter to refuse to play or quit a game over.

I don't play any games that require intensive and continuous use of the keyboard.

Lycan Nibbler · May 02, 2008, 04:33 AM // 04:33

If I wanted to jump and swing I'd play Donkey Kong.....

Lycan Nibbler · May 02, 2008, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

WASD is far superior for kiting/serious play.

Why do people come out with these kind of comments? Anyone who uses a mouse then is not a serious player? I kite with my mouse (although I do have "serious" mouse :P ).
As a poster said before,both have uses. I primarily use the mouse unless there is a need to use the keyboard - I use the KB for other parts of playing the game. I will be watching for feedback from the beta testers with interest.

Div · May 02, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

WASD is far superior for kiting/serious play. You literally just can't perform certain sidestep moves with a mouse.

Wrong. Using a mouse to click is superior for kiting/serious play. You simply can't dodge a bulls strike with the lagtime if you use WASD to kite a warrior. Similarly, you can't do the warrior dance to get extra hits in nearly as well (or at all) with WASD. Also, click to move is a much better way of not getting bodyblocked or rubberbanding (obviously it still happens, but much less often than with WASD). I've also seen many monks use "S" to move backwards when getting hit by a warrior when they should be clicking and kiting the warrior much more effectively. That's just asking to eat damage.

Phoenix Tears · May 02, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Mouse Control > WASD Shit

enough said...

zwei2stein · May 02, 2008, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliasys

actually, WASD is so outdated that it is the basic use as far back as games like space invaders. We've come a lot further in technology areas now. WASD is so "pre-mouse".

Bullshit.

Before mouse, 3d shooters were played on arrows and that part of keyboard.

Once mouse controll became viable, WASD came along with mouse in one neat movement controll package.

---

Anyway, point-to-click is major convencience feature that i miss in about every game that i play.

Removing it is like removing keyboard shortcuts to gui windows like skill list...

'R' is in no way replacement. Mouse-Move removes need for player to be physically present at computer to oversee character (quick alttab, snack grab, few words ... you know, playing casually is out of question.).

In most 'R'-to move scenarios you need to be there, reaiming character, still avoiding obstacles, stoping ... its not like 'R' takes 1.5 second. it takes full time to movement - something one might understand in game that makes movenet part of timesink, but in gw?

I want to fight monsters, not gui, damnit!

Mystica · May 02, 2008, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Don't like the idea.

I enjoy eating a sandwich that I hold in my left hand while click-moving with the mouse in my right hand. I would have to learn eating a sandwich with my right hand and would not be able to look around while running.

Ah well at least there is the R key. Time for a sandwich as long my "method" works.

Yawgmoth · May 02, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

I really really hope it's not true and click to move will remain an *option* in GW2. We know they're going to greatly expand the controls but still there's no better way to instantly turn and run at full speed to a specific spot than clicking on the ground.

I feel very comfortable with the GW1 controls, I use all the possible ways to move all the time. Proper movement in various combat situations is very skill intensive and having all the ways of movement available at once adds great depth to the gameplay, adds more possibilities for a skilled player to outplay a less skilled one.

Don't dumb down the game by limiting options, removing click-to-move from GW would be like removing rocket-jumps from Quake.

Innocent · May 02, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Click to move has its place. I personally have played WoW, and one thing I didn't like about WoW was having to use WASD while activating skills by pressing buttons.

If anything, that is the one thing that annoys me the most. I could click skills (and indeed, that's what I did in WoW), but it's just so much more cumbersome than mouse move + hand on KB to use skills, etc. I can't speak for any other MMO, but the interface for WoW really turned me off from it. The WASD was fine for doing most things, but in pvp it was a bit of a pain in the ass to move and hit skills at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Wrong. Using a mouse to click is superior for kiting/serious play. You simply can't dodge a bulls strike with the lagtime if you use WASD to kite a warrior. Similarly, you can't do the warrior dance to get extra hits in nearly as well (or at all) with WASD. Also, click to move is a much better way of not getting bodyblocked or rubberbanding (obviously it still happens, but much less often than with WASD). I've also seen many monks use "S" to move backwards when getting hit by a warrior when they should be clicking and kiting the warrior much more effectively. That's just asking to eat damage.

If I'm snared, I'm going to use S so I don't give away critical hits trying to click behind me. Otherwise, I use the mouse.

Sparks Dawnbringer · May 05, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

I use the keyboard mostly! Fine by me. I still use the mouse for skills though.

Turbobusa · May 05, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

How hard is it to implement the same feature as GW1, i.e. a simple check box to enable/disable mouse click walking?

HawkofStorms · May 05, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Wrong. Using a mouse to click is superior for kiting/serious play. You simply can't dodge a bulls strike with the lagtime if you use WASD to kite a warrior. Similarly, you can't do the warrior dance to get extra hits in nearly as well (or at all) with WASD. Also, click to move is a much better way of not getting bodyblocked or rubberbanding (obviously it still happens, but much less often than with WASD). I've also seen many monks use "S" to move backwards when getting hit by a warrior when they should be clicking and kiting the warrior much more effectively. That's just asking to eat damage.

Using WSAD to kite doesn't mean just holding down the s key and letting the guy wail on you. That isn't proper kiting at all. You can kite poorly with a mouse, and you can kite poorly with a keyboard. I'm talking about the differences between competitently using both.
It means sidestepping back and forth to avoid arrows, I mean rotating to spring away with "w" while spinning backwards and then gradually changing to "s" to get both good kite speed and avoid showing my backside for a long peroid of it.

Like I said, you can be bad at kiting using both. I just think if you refuse to use WASD you are limiting yourself (since everything you do with a mouse you can do with a keyboard if you turn your sensitivity up, but not the other way around since there is no way to strafe).

Gli · May 06, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

It doesn't really matter which is better. It's all just a matter of preference, like some people prefer manual transmission in their cars while others prefer automatic transmission. Choice is always better than no choice. Especially when the only available option in the 'no choice' scenario is a deal-breaker.

Balan Makki · May 06, 2008, 10:40 AM // 10:40

They'll likely add Clik to move as an option for those wanting less game interaction.

I believe Arena Net is going in the same direction as Funcom's Age of Conan. In AoC, if you tap a direction key while in combat, you'll increase your chance to parry/block/dodge attacks, depending on the direction attack Vs tapped key, or type of attack. Context movement is the furture of MMO gaming and is fully featured in AoC. Variations on attacks may even be sensitive to the direction or other (movement) condition. When you have a fully explorable world and click-to-move, you also risk falling off cliffs, burning in lava, over aggroing mobs when you miss-click. Accidently clicking will lead to loads of problems in a new system. Click-To-Move will be a far less effective way to play a game with advance Context Sensitive attacks, counters, and environmental exploration.

I'm enjoying what Funcom has done in AoC (Beta), it still needs lots of work, and you can still just click-fight if you wish, but you have far more depth in combat if you learn some of the combo tricks.

Also, how will you Climb-Click, Swim-Click etc. . . . ?? When fans demand a Z-Axis for exploration, Click-to-Move falls way, way short, and just won't cut the mustard; it may be a feature, but it will be a "Use At Your Own Risk" feature, and a very limited one at that.

Like AoC, GW2 should be very easy to play, with extreme depth in combat. Click to Move could be a feature, but it will likely be a very limited one.

HuntMaster Avatar · May 06, 2008, 10:55 AM // 10:55

I'm not a fan of keyboard movement, partly due to using a laptop that is difficult to keep my hand over the keys. I am a mouse user, I did not like Eq2 due to how movement works, I love the point and click movement, I hope anet reconsiders this.

Dervish Kid · May 06, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

i use both really..mainly my wasd keys though + space bar. mouse i need is for distant flagging and crap and zooming.

Sweet Mystery · May 06, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Perhaps clarifying the movement control aspect and what they mean with "click-to-move being removed" is something our Community Relations can get answered... as will be a major major point for many people in the game.

I use the keyboard almost all the time unless get bored and use the mouse to run about from A to B, but some of my guildies use the mouse all the time....

Clarity from Anet is needed, not hypothesis and flaming of others